Preserving Jobs for NYC Transit Conductors While Improving Transit Service
John Pegram[1]
NYC Transit subway conductors have a problem. Their job is no longer necessary. But the state legislature proposes a solution. Assembly bill 4873[2] (substituted for the identical Senate bill 4091[3]) would require two-person operation of every New York City Transit Authority subway train, including those that now operate without a conductor. If signed by Governor Hochul, this legislation will impose a huge cost on NYC Transit, which the Legislature has overlooked or ignored.
Rather than approving this legislation, the Governor, NYC Transit and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) should work together on a transitional plan for interested, current conductors to become operators of Single Person Train Operation (SPTO) trains, and increase the frequency of such trains at essentially no increase in cost.
R9 Subway Car (Built in 1940) in a NYC Transit Nostalgia Train
Conductor’s Left Fingers Are Activating a Door Control
The Legislative Proposal
Specifically, the bills would amend the NYC Transit part of the Public Authorities Law by adding a new section 1205-b, as follows:
Conductor required. Any subway or train operated by the Authority for the purpose of transporting passengers shall have at least one Conductor on board. For the purposes of this section, the term "Conductor" shall mean the person other than the driver, engineer or motorman primarily charged with all aspects of the operation of the railroad locomotive, subway or train, who shall assist in the operation of the train and be primarily responsible for the opening and closing of the doors and other safety aspects of the train. A Conductor shall be required on any subway or train operated by the Authority whenever the subway or train has more than two cars attached to the engine thereof.[4]
The justifications in the bills are primarily arguments of safety, in the light of terrorism; however, the real point is revealed in the last justification in the Senate “Sponsor Memo,” avoiding “further loss of jobs to NYC.”[5]
While there are many reasons why this proposed legislation should not be adopted, they will be deferred to later in this article, which focuses first on a better way to preserve jobs for current conductors and improve transit service.
The Alternative Proposal
One of the principal complaints about NYC subway service is the time between trains, especially in off-hours and in the outer sections of the subway system. This is an particularly serious problem for persons who need to take more than one train and/or bus to reach their destination.
If some of the current subway conductors were trained as train operators, frequency of service could be doubled on some lines with five-car trains under OPTO, without any reduction in total capacity on the line, increase in cost or loss of jobs. A Win-Win-Win situation!
The cost of two-person operation (operator and conductor) of long trains is a principal reason for infrequent subway trains in New York City. In contrast, other major cities run shorter, driverless or single operator trains more frequently. See, for example, the electronic display on the Paris Metro line 1, below, indicating that the next train will arrive in one minute and the following one in 4 minutes.
Next Trains Indicator on Paris Metro Line 1
A good example of inadequate frequency of train service in New York City is at the southern end of the A train line, which connects with the JFK AirTrain at Howard Beach. Trains on this line typically operate with ten 60-ft. long cars each. Between 8:54 pm and 6:13 am, and from 9 am to noon on weekdays, and all-day on weekends, trains depart Howard Beach toward Brooklyn and Manhattan three times per hour, at about 20-minute intervals. At other times on weekdays, except rush hours, these trains depart only four times per hour, at about 15-minute intervals. Trains from Brooklyn and Manhattan have similar frequencies.[6] (In contrast, for example, Blue Line trains operate from O’Hare Airport to Chicago 2 to 4 times as frequently as the NYC A train at most times between 4:30 am to 11:40 pm on weekdays).[7] No wonder relatively few people ride the subway from or to JFK Airport.
If a ten-car is divided into two five-car trains under OPTO, the A train could run at 7½ to 10-minute intervals. Transit advocates have made a compelling case for six-minute service at what they argue would be a small increase in cost.[8] This proposal could go a long way toward that objective at substantially no cost.
The Conductor Is No Longer Necessary for Subway Train Operation
The legislative proposal describes the Conductor as “primarily responsible for the opening and closing of the doors….” That is no longer necessary, as shown by train operation elsewhere, discussed below.
The Senate Sponsor Memo suggests a number of operational reasons for having a conductor, which appear to have been carried over from versions of the same memo from at least as far back as 2011.[9] A report by the Effective Transit Alliance (ETA) suggests that the proposal to legislatively require conductors on every subway train goes back to 1995, when train automation and signaling systems were still fairly primitive in the United States.[10] Evidence of great success over many years of subway trains without conductors in other major transit systems indicate that the reasons in the Sponsor Memo are outdated.
A Brief History of NYC Transit Conductors
For many years, subway conductors were necessary to open and close doors. Through most of the 20th Century, that often required standing outside the cars in all kinds of weather. Early NYC subway cars required multiple conductors to manually operate gates on outside platforms at the ends of cars. As late as 1977, the door controls were often located outside, for example, at the ends of R9 series cars. The conductor stood between two cars—as shown in the picture above—to operate the train doors.
Today, doors are operated remotely, in a cabin, by pushing a button. A conductor is no longer necessary to operate doors. On most transit lines in the world, the doors are opened and closed by the train operator, and many systems have ZPTO with automated door operation.
In the latter part of the 20th Century, public address systems were introduced in subway cars, permitting conductors to announce stations and warn, “Stand clear of the closing doors.” Now, most announcements are automated. Other announcements, such as ones about delays, can be—and often are—made by the train operator or a central dispatcher, rather than being relayed by a conductor. Indeed, the conductor, in a mid-train cabin, can see only the sidewall of the tunnel, and has little or no personal knowledge concerning what is affecting train operation.
Evidence From Other Transit Systems
The long and successful operation of “subway” trains without conductors in other cities is the best evidence that conductors are not necessary on trains of the New York City Transit system. Space does not permit discussion of all such systems here, although their experience without conductors should be considered. Rather, I will discuss the Paris Metro, which is one of the other transit systems that I know best and is an excellent basis for comparison with NYC Transit.
Although Paris is smaller than New York City, its Metro system is more advanced. The Metro had a ridership of over 1.4 billion riders per year in 2024,[11] which was about 2/3 of the 2.1 billion subway ridership reported by NYC Transit for 2023. Like New York City, Paris has a very diverse population, including many tourists and immigrants. At peak times, Paris Metro trains are subject to crowding comparable to that in the New York City subways. Paris also has experienced terrorist attacks (including Paris Metro bombings in 1995)[12] and has concerns regarding transit crime, primarily pickpockets.
The Paris Metro typically operates five or six-car trains with either One Person Train Operation (OPTO) or driverless, Zero Person Train Operation (ZPTO). There are no conductors on the Metro.
The first ZPTO line in Paris was line 14, which runs generally North-South through the center of the city. It was constructed as a ZPTO line from the outset and began operation over 25 years ago in 1998. In 2020, fully automated, eight-car trainsets were introduced on this line.[13]
The oldest Metro line in Paris is line 1, which began operation in 1900. It runs generally East-West from one side of Paris to the other, also through the city center. The conversion of line 1 to ZPTO was completed over 12 years ago in 2012.[14] Line 4 also has been converted to ZPTO.[15] Currently, four more Metro lines are being constructed as part of the Grand Paris Express orbital system around Paris. All of these lines are to have ZPTO.[16]
In at least the past 25 years, there does not appear to have been any major problem in Paris because the Metro does not have conductors.
Cost of the Legislative Proposal
The Senate Sponsor Memo wrongly states “FISCAL IMPLICATIONS: None to New York State.”[17] That overlooks the immense cost effect of mandating a train operator and conductor on every subway train carrying passengers, which would bar NYC Transit from OPTO and ZPTO operation of subway trains.
In fact, the cost of operating NYC Transit subway trains and potential reductions thereof have a significant fiscal implication for New York State. NYC Transit is a subsidiary of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which is a state agency. The state government is the principal source of operating funds other than funds generated by the agency itself. New York State contributed 43% of the entire operating expenses of NYC Transit in 2023.[18]
Salaries and benefits for train operators and conductors are the largest single category of operating expenses for the subway system.[19] A database of NY State employee salaries indicates that NYC Transit had 3013 conductors in revenue service in 2024. They were paid a total of $213,256,405, indicating an average pay of $67,636 per year.[20] An experienced conductor may be paid over $86,000 per year, excluding benefits and overtime.[21] Judging from a NYC Transit report, the value of additional benefits for subway operating personnel is approximately equal to their wages.[22]
Legislators Appear to Have Been Mislead
Section 1 of the legislative proposal and the Senate Sponsor Memo[23] contain factual errors and outdated arguments, indicating that the legislators have been misled. Apparently, at least in part, that is due to the fact that the bills and sponsors comments have been copied from similar bills long ago.[24]
Not the Largest Public Transit System
The Sponsor’s memo incorrectly describes the NY City subway system as “the largest public transit system in the world.” The alleged size and uniqueness of the NY City subway system have frequently been used in arguing against evidence from operation of other transit systems and—therefore—such arguments should immediately be suspect.
In fact, the NY City subway system is not the largest. The Tokyo subways, for example, have far greater ridership. A report on subway conductors by the usually accurate Effective Transit Alliance (ETA) states that the NYC subway “is 9th by ridership, 14th by route length, and roughly around 7th by revenue track length.” And that report states, “every single transit system that is larger than NYC’s, no matter how you count it, uses OPTO or ZPTO.”[25]
Not the Best Crime Deterrent
The Sponsor Memo also includes the assertion that the conductor’s “presence is
also viewed as a deterrent to crime.”[26] Perhaps, but I suggest that a conductor in her cabin in the midst of a ten-car subway train is not a significant deterrent to crime, especially in the other nine cars. It is not the most cost effective. For example, the presence of cameras, and of police officers and customer service agents roving through trains and stations are much more likely to deter crime. The legislative proposal requiring conductors on practically every subway train restricts the freedom of the transit agency to use its best judgment in how best to deter crime and assure passenger safety.
The Presence of Subway Conductors Is Not an Effective Defense Against Terrorism
Section 1 of the legislative proposal raises the specter of terrorism, saying that “makes it imperative that we recognize the role of conductors and other authority personnel assigned on passenger trains as first responders, and the front line defense to potentially save lives and limit casualties in the event of a terrorist attack.”
While it is important to be concerned about a possible terrorist attack on the subway system, the statistical likelihood of such attack on the NYC subway is extremely low. It appears to be generally agreed that the most important steps to be taken are deterrents to potential terrorist attacks, both locally and nationally. The presence a conductor in a cabin on a train would not be a significant deterrent. Presence of cameras, and of roving police or customer service agents are likely to be a greater deterrent. Also, just what role do the legislators envision for subway conductors in the event of a terrorist attack? Would elevator operators have been able to help in the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center? How likely is it that conductors would survive the attack? The sad truth is that on-site, potential first responders are likely to killed or disabled in a major attack, and the first responders would have to come from elsewhere.
For these reasons, I disagree with the idea of having conductors on every subway train to potentially deter a terrorist attack or serve as first responders.
The Legislative Proposal Is Inaccurate and Unclear
Finally, the current legislative proposal, A4893, is both inaccurate and unclear. That alone should be sufficient reason for rejecting it.
The inaccuracy of the legislative proposal first occurs near the beginning of its Section 1, where—as noted above—it wrongly states that “the New York city subway system” is “the largest public transit system in the world.” It also wrongly states there, “an estimated average of over 10,000 passengers [are] loaded onto each train during rush hours,” whereas the actual number is about 2,400.[27] There is at least one, similar, gross error in the Senate Sponsor Memo, where it says that the subway system has “64.8 miles of tracks running through four boroughs.”[28] Actually, the system has 665 miles of revenue tracks over 248 route miles.[29]
Although the bill is focused on “subway,” that term is not defined in the proposed law, which could create problems of interpretation and scope of its conductor requirement. The proposed conductor requirement law would be § 1205-b of the Public Authorities Act, a part of its Title 9, which relates to the NYC Transit Authority. “Subway” is only defined in one place in that title, the “Rapid transit noise code” in Section 1204-a. That definition is “‘Subways’ means all rail rapid transit systems operated by the authority including but not limited to rolling stock, track and track beds, passenger stations, tunnels, elevated structures, yards, depots, and shops.” However, that definition is limited to that Section, relating to noise.
Section 2 of the bill, which would become Public Authorities Act § 1205-b, is contradictory and unclear regarding the length of subway trains which must have a crew of two. The first sentence requires at least one Conductor on “Any subway … for the purpose of transporting passengers.” The second sentence defines a Conductor as the “the person other than the driver, engineer or motorman primarily charged with all aspects of the operation of the railroad locomotive, subway or train….” Together, these sentences suggest that all subway trains—regardless of length—require a crew of two, including all of those subway trains which are now operated by one person. However, the third sentence says, “a conductor shall be required on any subway or train operated by the authority whenever the subway or train has more than two cars attached to the engine thereof.” What does this mean? Neither “engine” nor “locomotive” (mentioned earlier in the Section) are defined in this Section. NYC Transit subway cars with passengers are not normally attached to an “engine” or “locomotive.” Does this sentence restrict the prior two sentences to ordinary subway trains having more than two cars or not?
According to the second sentence, the Conductor “shall assist in the operation of the train…. Other than operating doors, which—as I have shown above—is no longer necessary, how does a Conductor “assist in the operation of the train”?
Conclusion
The legislative proposal to require conductors on every train should be firmly rejected, and other steps should be taken to preserve jobs for persons who are now subway conductors and improve service, as suggested in this article.
This article expresses the personal views of the author and does not express the views of his employer, or any client or organization. The author has degrees in law and physics, and has taken several engineering courses. After five years of work as an engineer, he has practiced law primarily in the field of patents for over 50 years, dealing with a wide variety of technologies. He is a life-long railfan and user of public transportation in the United States, Europe and Japan.
A PDF copy of this article is attached.
[1] © John Pegram, 2025.
[2] Available at https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/A4873.
[3] Available at https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S4091.
[4] Original is in All-Caps format. “Authority” and “Conductor” have been initially capitalized here for greater legibility.
[5] The Sponsor Memo is included with S4091 at https://www.nysenate.gov/ legislation/bills/2025/S4091 and a copy is attached to this article.
[6] https://www.mta.info/document/9466
[7] Chicago Transit Authority, Blue Line Schedule, available at https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/rail-tt_blue.pdf, copy attached
[8] See https://static1.squarespace.com/static/61033b9bd377817f5bcc6db9/t/ 633c655f2aa6da55a17ebc79/1664902496083/SB_RA_SixMinute_Brief_Updated+%281%29.pdf
[9] Supra note 5.
[10] ETA, “Impeding Progress, Costing Riders: Bill Banning One-Person Trains Would Lock NY Transit in the Past” (July 2, 2025), available at https://www.etany.org/statements/impeding-progress-costing-riders-opto.
[11] Paris Métro - Wikipedia. Transit systems in Paris also include separate regional rail systems, including the RER, which operates an express-type service on longer lines, for example, the RER line B to Charles de Gaulle Airport. Réseau Express Régional - Wikipedia.
[12] 1995 France bombings - Wikipedia
[13] Paris Métro Line 14 - Wikipedia.
[14] Paris Métro Line 1 - Wikipedia.
[16] Paris Métro - Wikipedia; Grand Paris Express - Wikipedia
[17] Supra note 5.
[18] See attached NYC Transit “2023 Annual Agency Profile,” page 2, downloaded by the author from the National Transportation Database (NTD) of the Federal Transit Administration (FTA). Available at https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/ transit_agency_profile_doc/2023/20008.pdf
[19] See attached report Form F-30 of NYC Transit to the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) of Heavy Rail (HR=subway) operating expenses for 2023, downloaded by the author from the FTA’s National Transportation Database (NTD).
[20] https://www.seethroughny.net/payrolls/.
[21] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/07/on-the-job-earning-86k-a-year-as-a-subway-conductor-in-new-york-city.html
[22] See attached NYC Transit “2023 Annual Agency Profile,” supra note 18.
[23] Supra note 5.
[24] See text at notes 9 and 10, supra, and the ETA Report cited in note 10.
[25] Id.
[26] Supra note 5.
[27] For example, modern trains on the A subway line use ten 60-foot long R211 cars. Each such train has a total capacity of 2,400, including 300 seated and 2,100 standees. R211 (New York City Subway car) - Wikipedia
[28] Supra note 5.